We Exist Series 3: Audio Recordings

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  Faith: Emma Jackson

  Maureen Elgersman Lee

  Emma Jackson (age 62; March 14, 1941 in Atlanta, Georgia; married with three children; lives in the Lewiston/Auburn area for 45 years; lived in Maine for 46 years)

  Interviewer: "Is there anything else you'd like to add to the interview? Any other reflections or comments?"

  Emma Jackson: “It's been a wonderful. I mean, I've enjoyed -- I've really -- I love this area. I love living here. I love -- and people here, ah, once they know you -- once they know you, they are -- they are just people…And you become a part of the community. Although now I have friends, I have, ah, nephews and things that have been in and out of jail and all. But that's a lifestyle that they are leading. Now, once they get over into that lifestyle, certainly you going to find – you going to fall victim to more and more things that are happening in that drug scene and all that. But since I've never -- we've never -and, ah, as I said, my son was in it. Thank God he came out of it. But the girls were never in that. They never were involved in anything like that. So on the whole it's been a beautiful life. But, then again, God has been in charge of our lives…We were in the church, and always have been in the church. And we looked to God for our source. And you treat people like you want to be treated. And you accept them as fallen human beings. They're frail. They're human beings that have weaknesses…And they're -- they're sinning. A lot of things that you look at and you know that the people are living in sin. They -- that's -- that's what they know. That's all they know. That's the way they been brought up. It's been a very good life. I -- I've -- well, I -- I don't -- and I been in the south, and my sister's still in the south. And I've -- we've traveled all over. I can't imagine living anywhere unless God led me somewheres. But I can't imagine living anywhere else.”

  You can find the full interview and transcript by visiting this page.
  

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  The Black Church and the Black Family: Emma Jackson

  Maureen Elgersman Lee

  Emma Jackson (age 62; March 14, 1941 in Atlanta, Georgia; married with three children; lives in the Lewiston/Auburn area for 45 years; lived in Maine for 46 years)

  Interviewer: "And you are a member of Christ's Temple"

  Emma Jackson: “Christ's Temple”

  Interviewer: "Church of God in Christ?"

  Emma Jackson: “Church.”

  Interviewer: "Can you, um, just talk a bit about your membership or your history with the church?

  Emma Jackson: “Well, we started now -- the, ah -- we originally were in Portland. The -- the head -- the mother church is in Portland. Williams Temple. Williams Temple at the time was, um, my uncle, Bishop, ah, David. Ah, Bishop Aradee Williams was the Bishop there and my aunt -- we talking family–”

  Interviewer: "That was your uncle?"

  Emma Jackson: “And we came here with family. I came here with family. Years ago that's the way a lot of people came to Maine.”

  Interviewer: "Mmmhmm."

  Emma Jackson: “Now, there were original blacks here.”

  Interviewer: "Yes."

  Emma Jackson: “There were some original blacks here.”

  Interviewer: "Mmmhmm."

  Emma Jackson: “The Cummings I think were originals.”

  Interviewer: "A long time. Yeah."

  Emma Jackson: “It was a very long time. There was a -- the Fishers, the Donald Fishers. These were original families. But a lot of black families came through other -- my uncle was here because there was no Church of God in Christ up here. So he was an, what you call back then, overseer. So they wanted to work, ah, to start up a mission up here in the State of Maine. So he was sent here to start the mission. The -- and he started a mission in Portland. So he didn't have any-very -- it's sparsely as far as the membership was concerned. He always had white members.” Okay. “From the minute this church was conceived there was always whites. There was never -- we were never a time when it wasn't a mixture of people in this in the Church of God in Christ here in the State of Maine.”

  Interviewer: "Okay."

  Emma Jackson: “In -- in on the Bishop Williams.”

  Interviewer: "Mmmhmm."

  Emma Jackson: “So but what -- he would go -- in order to populate more, he would go back in to his, ah, ah, family members and his wife's, ah, family and bring people here. So my husband is here because of Bishop Williams. My husband's sister was married to another minister that came here since Bishop, ah, brought -- ah, oh, asked him to come, and he finally came up here and was working in Bangor. So my husband -- it was a large family. The Jackson's was nine boys and -- and three girls. So periodically some of them would come here to visit and they would stay.”

  Interviewer: "Okay."

  Emma Jackson: “And that's the way I came here.”

  Interviewer: "And can you tell me a little bit about the -- the Christ Temple congregation?"

  Emma Jackson: “Now -- the Christ Temple congregation. We stayed in Portland for a year. No. No, no, no. We didn't -- we stayed there maybe six months -- six months or so. Then we moved here. My uncle was the -- was the minister here -- ah, Alee Hall was the minister at –here -- here in Christ Temple. And we had a very small – very close knit. We were a very close-knit family. Very close knit to church. We -- we didn't have, ah, a building. We worshiped at a church called Pinley's Comer. It was a historical church, but again, the people were -- they would allow you as far as churches was concerned. You -- if you needed something -- if you needed help, they were willing to help. So they let us use that.”

  Interviewer: "Okay."

  Emma Jackson: “But he started off on Cedar Street in a little church there. But, then these were all missions, like storefronts.” Mmmhmm. “And moved onto Pinley's Comer. And we were -- we lived – we lived -- we worshiped up at Pinley's Comer. It was a very small congregation. Again, let's say at -- at our largest we had 35 members. And a portion was white, a portion was black, a lot of family. We carried on there. Then we moved into town and we, um, had a little building over on Dennison Street and we converted -- it was a store. And he bought it from the man and converted it into a church. For years a very small congregation. For years we had -- again, it was family. His family, wife, and three sons, and my, ah, ah -- my husband is -- ah, me and, ah, our son and the children and brothers. Some brothers were there. So it was a very small congregation. And we carried on the church there. My uncle left. He -- he was here for a number of years until his -well, he left when my daughter was nine months old. Robin is the one that I'm talking about now.”

  Interviewer: Mmmhmm.

  Emma Jackson: “He left when she was nine months old. And we continued to carry on the church for, oh, two or three years, and then my husband took it over -- was ordained pastor.”

  You can visit this page for the complete interview and transcript.

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  The Black Church and the Black Family: Reverend Albert Jackson and Mrs. Clemmie Jackson

  Maureen Elgersman Lee

  Albert Jackson (born in Slabfork, Virginia; age 61; lived in Maine for 43 years) and Mrs. Clemmie Jackson (born March 1948 in Marengo County, Alabama; age 55; lived in Maine for 3.5 years)

  
  

  Interviewer: "Okay. And are there other types of jobs that you have held? You're also pastor of…Christ Temple Church? Can you talk about that? How recent that has been? A little bit of that history?"

  Rev. Jackson: “It's been about a couple of weeks ago…that I was installed…And, um, mm…I was…I was assistant pastor…And -- and I was the assistant pastor there for about 40 years.”

  Interviewer: "Okay. Great. Um, if l can just take a -- a moment to ask you since we're talking about Christ Temple, ah, and talking about your role as pastor, if l could ask you -- if you could say just a -- a few things about Reverend Isaac Jackson -- the late Reverend Isaac Jackson. He was a man who, when I envisioned this project, I would have wanted to interview. And maybe, um, this could be an opportunity to say some things about him."

  Rev. Jackson: “Yeah...Yeah. Ah, he was my brother. And, ah, actually he was a man of vision because we started on 85 Dennison Street, a little small church and, ah -- and it was converted, ah, um, from a storefront into a church. And, ah, it was -- and he was here for about 35 years. And then -- then we moved from Dennison Street from where we are located now. And, ah, as I say, he was a man of vision. And he -- he was a, ah -- what am I trying to say, he, um, was also a person that, ah, stuck to his, ah, conviction and I – I think it's what made him -- made him so great. And, ah, even though we had struggles -- but he -- he stood to his convictions and he didn't -- he didn't ever -- ah, variegate for what he believed in. I think that's what made him such a strong leader.”

  You can visit this page for the complete interview and transcript.

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  The Black Church as Civil Society: Mrs. Joanna Boley-Lee McKenzie

  Maureen Elgersman-Lee

  Mrs. Joanna Boley-Lee McKenzie (age 66; born 1937 in Newark, New Jersey; lived in Maine for 8.5 years)

  Interviewer: Okay. Well, now can you -- can you talk about any of the committees that you -- that you have (inaudible) locally?

  Mrs. Joanna Boley-Lee McKenzie: “Uh, I work with the, uh, City of Lewiston. There are two committees, um, both of them are diversity committees, one of them under, uh, Mayor Kaileigh Tara that was the beginning of the diversity committee. And then, um, there's another committee that has -- was put together, amazingly, just before the, um, uh, -- the, um, march in January when the white supremacists came. We were trying to set up some workshops for the city to help people to – to resolve the issues they had with the Somalians being here. And it was perfect timing because we were able to then concentrate our efforts on the, um, rally at Bates. The "Many and One" group, sort of -- many of the people on this, uh, city committee also served on the "Many and One" committee. So, we've worked together. Uh, I did training for the Lewiston and Auburn Police Department. I serve on the "Hate Bias Taskforce" committee which is, uh, a state committee, but each city has its own small organization that is part of the larger group. Uh, and then the other kinds of committee are the Jubilee Center at Trinity Episcopal Church. Um, not so much for diversity and gender, but here it's class. We -- we work with the -- the, uh, poorer and unemployed people in the city, um, those kinds of things.”

  You can access the complete interview and transcript by visiting this page.

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  Church Leadership, Participation and Activism & The Black Church and Family Traditions: Mr. Richard Tarrence

  Rachel Talbot-Ross

  Mr. Richard Tarrence (age 57; born 1945 in Cleveland, Ohio; moved to Maine in October 1975)

  Mr. Richard Tarrence: “I was not. I had not really picked out a church. I had visited the AME church here. It’s an interesting point. I’m from an AME family, and this is an AME Zion church. I don’t know if you know anything about the AME Church. At one point they were one church and they split…I’m from a staunch AME church. My belief at that time was that, well, it’s not really my denomination, but it was the church here, so I would visit. And many people would try to get me involved in the AME Zion church, but I didn’t go back to that church until about 7 years ago and became a full-fledged member, a working member of that church. So, it was, to answer your question, it was off and on that I was going, and I was not regularly attending at that time…Just the traditional holidays. I mean, we had little things we’d do in the traditional holidays. Like, you know, as New Year’s it was the family gathering and the black-eyed peas and stuff. And I didn’t become aware of Kwanzaa until many years later – just recently. And I don’t do it as a family celebration, but I celebrate it with my church family. We have programs to celebrate Kwanzaa. But to answer your question: I had nothing specific other than just the traditional family gatherings that as a family we always held and to eat some traditional foods that we always ate.”

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  Church Leadership, Participation and Activism: Mr. James Mathews

  Maureen Elgersman Lee

  Mr. James Mathews (age 59; born 1941 in Portland Maine; married with five children; lived in Maine all his life – lived in South Portland for over 26 years)

  Interviewer: "The third topic is activism and leadership. What community or religious groups have you participated in during your life so far?"

  Mr. James Mathews: “Well, I was a boy scout and I strongly liked their stand. I belong to the Green Memorial African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church; I'm a trustee, choir member, and so on up there. I’m a life member of the NAACP. I was president of the local branch from 1973 to 1976. And. those are basically my activities. I have not been involved with the NAACP as much as I probably would have liked, lately, you know. I support the events that they have and so on.” What roles did you play in these groups? “In the church at the Green Memorial AME Zion Church I'm a trustee board member, I'm president of the lay council, I used to be an usher. I'm in the men's choir and the mass choir. Basically just do anything I can to help our church. As far as the NAACP is concerned like I already stated, I've been a member for thirty-some years probably and I have been the president from 1973 to 1976. No, I beg your pardon. That was 1971 to 1976. Correction, correction. Five years.”

  You can find the complete recording and transcript by visiting this page.

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  Faith: Ms. Lucille Young

  Anab Osman

  Ms. Lucille Young (born 1928 in Jackson, Mississippi; moved to Maine in 1960; widow)

  Ms. Lucille Young: “So I’ve got to get back to the store, to the job I worked at the store downtown. So the man said, ‘Well, you can’t buy this,’ he say, ‘because you’re on welfare.’ And I looked at that man and I said, ‘I won’t work here another day.’ I walked right out that door. And there was three girls standing at that door talking about Fairchild. I didn’t even know who they were. And I says, ‘Where is this place at?’ And the girl said, ‘I’ll tell you how to get there.’ And she told me how to get there. And I couldn’t wait until the next morning to get on the bus to get there. The next morning, I got up, I got on the bus, and went straight to Fairchild. And I told the man where I was going; he put me off there. I went on in the place and a man sitting at the front desk. And I told him, I says, ‘I hear that you were hiring women,’ I says, ‘and I’m looking for a job.’ He looked at me and said, ‘What shift would you like to have, first second, or third?’ Just that easy. I said, ‘I’ll take third; it’s because I got a small kid – I want to be home in the daytime.’ So he give me one piece of paper. ‘You see, you take this paper to the unemployment office and fill it out,’ and he says, ‘and do what they tell you to do about putting these little notches together.’ He says, ‘I’m sure you’ll get a job.’ And I went and I met two more girls there doing the same thing I was doing because they was trying to get a job, too. And the girl said, ‘Oh my god, that girl gonna get a job; look how fast she put her things together.’ And so I had put them all together. Now I’m not educated with books, but I’m educated with God-given sense, what God has took care, God gave me that. I went right back out there and that man gave me a job. And I worked there for 20 years.”

  You can access the full recording and transcript by visiting this page.